Hello and welcome to Americano, the Spectator's USA podcast. My name's Freddie Gray. I'm a deputy and USA editor of The Spectator.

And earlier today, I met Steve Bannon in a London hotel, and we had a conversation about various things.

Chiefly, is Russia a great threat to America or is it China?

And the beginning I asked him whether he thought the media were right to say that Donald

Trump had sided with Russia rather than his own intelligence services about Russian collusion

or meddling in the

U.S. election.

It's not meddling.

There's two things.

There's meddling and collusion.

They're totally different.

Meddling, I mean, Ted Kennedy went to the Soviet ambassador back in 76 and said,

with Carter, and says,

you've got to help us beat Reagan.

I mean, they actively look for Soviet support in the 70s to stop Ronald Reagan.

That is a historical fact.

We've printed in many books.

People have talked about it.

I didn't see the Democratic left up in arms about that.

Do intelligence services try to meddle?

All the stuff in the House Intelligence

Committee, everything they showed about meddling is all marginalia, right? Maybe D and C, it's all

...