Hi, I'm Anna Marie Cox and welcome to With Friends Like These, the show where we talk

about the differences between us without letting them divide us.

And this week's show is incredibly on point in that regard.

My guest is Amanda Carpenter, who you may know from her frequent appearances on CNN as

a reasonable conservative.

She also has written a book called Gaslighting America, Why We Love It When Trump Lies To Us.

And from those two pieces of information alone, you may have gathered that she is a never

trumper, whatever that means.

She and I actually kind of get into how that really doesn't mean much.

And neither does the term reasonable conservative for that matter.

For a long time in Washington, reasonable conservative has just been journalistic speak

for conservative that I like.

And indeed, Amanda is a conservative that I like.

But it becomes clear in our conversation that she and I had never really talked politics

before, not enough to find out how much we disagreed, at least.

Our conversation tests the limits of what the never-trump shared good will can support.

There is a place in this conversation where progressive listeners will be disappointed

in me.

I won't talk too much more about it.

Instead, I'll get straight to the conversation.

Here is Amanda Carpenter.

Amanda, hello.

...