Hello and welcome to a special episode of the Spectators podcast.

I'm Kate Andrews, the Spectator's economics editor, and this podcast is sponsored by Smart Energy, GB.

Britain's high energy prices, insecure energy supply, and climate change commitments all

suggest that people's relationship with energy will need to change. But will this mean a lower

standard of living? Can we be smarter with how we consume energy? And what is the role played by

smart meters in this transition? Smart Energy GB are a not-for-profit campaign trying to change the way people

understand their relationship with energy. What are the pitfalls and the successes of smart meters?

In this podcast, I'm joined today by their CEO, Dan Bruch. Hi, Dan. Thanks for inviting me.

Very happy to have you here. Energy security is often seen to be a problem of supply.

And you've been trying to make the case that we need to change the way that we look at demand for energy as well.

Can you tell me a bit more about that?

Yes. Very important subject energy security right now.

You know, as everybody on the ground is feeling from the increase in prices at home and in their businesses.

I mean, I guess energy security is a problem of supply and demand on the demand side.

One of the things that's happening in the moment is people are doing everything they can to try and save energy

and saving energy, you know, millions of households around the country,

it means we use less energy and therefore, you know, we're less reliant on it

and by definition, therefore, less reliant on the imported element of it.

So that I think is important, but there's also gains to be had not just from the amount

of energy that we use and the proportion that's imported,

but also when we use it, because the system, the amount of energy use free changes during the day

and the peaks, let's call that the centre break of Coronation Street, when people are making

...