Hello and welcome to money talks, your guide to all manner of amazing ideas,

the Slate Money Show where we talk to the most interesting people

in the world about fascinating things. This week, I, Felix Armand of Bloomberg, am joined by,

wait, hang on a sec, Emily Peck of Axios. Hello. This is a two-on-one interview because, Emily,

who are we interviewing this week?

We are interviewing the wonderful Ray Madoff, who just wrote an amazing book called The Second Estate, How the Tax Code, Made an American Aristocracy.

Hello, Ray.

Hi, what pleasure to be here.

Ray, so other than writing this book, what's your claim to fame?

Introduce yourself.

Who are you? So I'm a law professor at Boston College Law School where I've been for 32 years,

teaching students how to help the rich avoid taxes and teaching them other things as well.

So you have this book.

It's all about exactly that, how the rich evade taxes.

We're going to dive deep into the estate tax

or the effective lack thereof and income tax and what crazy strategies the rich have used

not only to evade taxes, but also to persuade the government to let them evade taxes. And

what might conceivably be done about it. It's gnarly and

depressing, but also a must listen. If I do say so myself, it's all coming up on Money Talks.

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