Hey, everybody. I'm John Don Van, host and moderator of Intelligent Squared US Debates.

And if you've been following the series this summer, you know that we're putting out a

string of podcasts that aren't strictly speaking presentations of debates, but rather

part of a series that we call discourse disruptors. It's an interview series that we're doing

where I talk with people who are part of and also shaping the way that we're all talking

to each other today. And today with me in the studio, Simon Johnson, Simon is a top

economist who is really taking a new look at the way we think and talk about jobs and the

economy in modern America. He has some policy prescriptions, but what we really want to

talk with Simon about is his analysis of the way in which we've ended up not talking to

each other because of certain decisions made about investments in science by governments

and even by private industries and how science relates to that. So Simon, thanks so much

for joining us. Thanks. Have me. You're a professor at MIT. You were the chief economist

at the International Monetary Fund. You also have some history with us at Intelligent

Squared US. You've debated with us three times, I think. I think two debates and one unresolved.

One unresolved. Yeah. Yeah. But you've been on the stage with those three times, which

is getting close to the record. I think we have some four or five timers, but you're certainly

in the top. So it's great to have you in this format with us as well. And as I mentioned,

we've come out with a new book with a very intriguing title, Jump Starting America,

how breakthrough science can revive economic growth and the American dream. You co-wrote

that with John Gruber. First of all, tell us to give credit where to do who John is.

So John is an economist at MIT. He's in the Department of Economics and he's one of the

countries leading experts on public finance, the how the government finance and finance

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