Should colleges accept money from bad people?

The Indicator from Planet Money

NPR

Business

4.7 • 9.5K Ratings

🗓️ 12 March 2026

⏱️ 8 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

At a dinner in 2010, physicist Sean Carroll is handed a phone. On the other end: A wealthy patron looking to potentially fund his research. Months later came an invite to a conference. It would take place on an island. The caller was Jeffrey Epstein. Sean declined. Many others didn’t.

On today’s show, why did so many academics say yes to Epstein’s invites and money? And what Epstein’s ability to ingratiate himself with them reveals about how science research is funded.

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Related episodes:
What an Epstein recording reveals about how elites get jobs
American science brain drain

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Transcript

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0:00.0	NPR.
0:11.2	Sean Carroll's job is to ponder questions like,
0:14.4	What is the fundamental nature of reality?
0:17.6	That's because he's a professor of physics and philosophy at Johns Hopkins University.
0:22.1	Sean has also advised on movies like Thor and Avengers Endgame. And he's not a stickler for the
0:28.5	details. Yeah, it would be very hard to be a science consultant on Thor, the movie, if you
0:34.3	were really a purist about getting the physics right. Yeah, so Sean has rubbed
0:37.6	shoulders with notable scientists and Hollywood types. And back in 2010, he and his wife got
0:43.8	invited to dinner at someone's home. That night, the host said to Sean, I'm friends with this guy
0:49.5	who is pretty wealthy and interested in science. So why don't you chat for a few minutes and see if you hit it off?
0:55.3	The host got this guy on the phone.
0:57.4	So Sean took the call.
0:59.1	On the other end of the line was Jeffrey Epstein.
1:04.0	This is the indicator from Planet Money.
1:05.9	I'm Waylon Wong.
1:07.0	And I'm Daryan Woods.
1:07.9	The Epstein files give a glimpse into the extent of Epstein's network across business, government, and academia.
1:15.2	Today on the show, what happened after Sean's phone call and what Epstein's links to scientists reveal about how universities fund research?
1:26.8	We recently did an episode on how convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein acted as an elite
1:32.5	power broker in government and business circles.
1:36.1	He also cultivated a network of high-profile academics.
1:39.9	They included economist and former Harvard President Larry Summers, a Nobel Prize-winning brain
	...

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