From KCRW Santa Monica and KCRW.com, it's The Treatment.

It's the Treatment.

It's the treatment. I'm Elvis Mitchell. I am thrilled to be sitting across from, I think,

one of the greatest actors we've produced in this country, who's also a best-selling author, a documentary filmmaker, a Broadway dancer.

Of course, I am talking to and about Shirley McLean.

Her newest book, which I think, and I just mentioned this to her, is like a condensation of all the books she's written so far is called The Wall of Life,

and it's a picture book.

And Shirley, first of all, thank you so much for doing this.

Oh, my pleasure.

As we said in your talk, I remember as a kid, the TV show Shirley's World,

where you played a glow-trotting photojournalist with her heart on her slave.

And that felt to me the first time I'd ever seen anybody in the series

played somebody who had felt like that persona felt close to in a lot of ways who you were.

Yeah, in many ways I should have been a journalist.

I love to ask questions.

But you're also really curious about things, too. And I remember at one point you said in an interview, and it stuck with me, you were

talking about why women weren't getting roles in the 70s. And you said this incredible thing.

During the Haysco, because it wasn't sex allowed, women had to have professions. They were judges. They were doctors.

They were nurses. Now that there's sexuality in movies, women are just sex objects. I thought that

was the most incredible and progressive thing I'd ever heard anybody say. It explains why we are

where we are now, doesn't it? This is a question of our freedom.

So it's an experiment, America is, and how do you explain or predict about what's going to happen with freedom with women women, on this planet, by the way.

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