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This Jungian Life Podcast

SHADOWLAND: DETRANSITION – THE STORY OF BETH

This Jungian Life Podcast

Joseph Lee, Deborah Stewart, Lisa Marchiano

Jungian, Mental Health, Health & Fitness, Psychology, Dreams, Jung, Relationships, Selfhelp, Society & Culture, Psychoanalysis

4.81.7K Ratings

🗓️ 28 April 2022

⏱️ 104 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Beth underwent gender transition from natal female to trans male and has since de-transitioned. In her early teens, Beth felt she was not like other women and began to question her gender. She saw people who were nonconforming, but although she adopted a non-binary identity in college, people still saw her as a woman. Beth became drawn to a masculine identity and associated transitioning gender with empowerment: she would be free from the perceived social constraints and physical vulnerabilities of womanhood. Beth’s parents, the therapist she saw a few times, and the surgeon all affirmed her desire to transition. Beth underwent testosterone therapy and top surgery to remove her breasts, sacrifices in service of liberation. In time, however, Beth discovered that physical changes did not transform her inner world, and her post-surgical chest remains numb. Beth says, “de-transitioning brought me down to earth” and into adulthood. She feels some of her urges to transition were healthy, and some were self-annihilating—and wishes she had had more help in differentiating her inner world from her gender expression. Beth hopes to be a voice for the complexity of gender transitioning.

Here’s Beth’s dream:

“I met a woman in a lush forest. The forest was filled with strange relics—an abandoned child’s playground, a little home, and abandoned campsites. I knew she was a detransitioner, but unlike me, she was proud, unabashed, and free. She told me I could be free like her once no one knew where to find me. Then she ran off into the jungle. There was an exhilarating feeling of freedom and hope.”

BEYOND THE BREAKING POINT

Music and lyrics by Wells Hanley ©2021

You were my lost lover
I tried for so long
just to find you here beside me
I was so wrong

I wandered darkened highways
I turned every stone
far beyond the point of breaking
but I was never alone

So afraid I would die waiting
How I hoped you would be there
and that you’d find me
out beyond the breaking point

So I swam in shark filled waters
I swam in despair
My flesh was eaten, bruised, and beaten
My blood was spilled everywhere

And as I sank down to the bottom
and my life began to fade,
you opened up your eyes
out beyond the breaking point

And as we gaze into the heavens
where we dwell among the trees,
you’re always with me

here beyond the breaking point

_____________

Music and lyrics by Wells Hanley ©2021

Singers: Laura Ann Singh at www.lauraannsingh.com and Rei Alvarez at www.reialvarez.com

https://www.iwrotethissongforyou.com/

https://www.patreon.com/iwrotethissongforyou

NOTES:

Currently, there is limited research on the factors that correlate with detransition and the percentage of individuals who chose to detransition. Of the available studies, methods and definitions vary, suggesting a need to establish standardized criteria in the future. Five studies are mentioned below. One concludes, of 17,151 who identify as transgender and gender diverse people, 13.1% reported a history of detransition or going back to living as their sex assigned at birth. Another concludes that only 0.2-0.3% of patients expressed post-operative regret and requested reversal surgery. In another study, 6.9% of patients detransitioned. Additional research is necessary to understand these phenomena more fully.

Boyd, I.; Hackett, T.; Bewley, S. Care of Transgender Patients: A General Practice Quality Improvement Approach. Healthcare 2022, 10, 121. https://doi.org/10.3390/healthcare100 10121

Hall, R., Mitchell, L., & Sachdeva, J. (2021). Access to care and frequency of detransition among a cohort discharged by a UK national adult gender identity clinic: Retrospective case-note review. BJPsych Open, 7(6), E184. doi:10.1192/bjo.2021.1022

Littman L. Individuals Treated for Gender Dysphoria with Medical and/or Surgical Transition Who Subsequently Detransitioned: A Survey of 100 Detransitioners. Arch Sex Behav. 2021 Nov;50(8):3353-3369. doi: 10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w. Epub 2021 Oct 19. PMID: 34665380; PMCID: PMC8604821.

Narayan SK, Hontscharuk R, Danker S, Guerriero J, Carter A, Blasdel G, Bluebond-Langner R, Ettner R, Radix A, Schechter L, Berli JU. Guiding the conversation - types of regret after gender-affirming surgery and their associated etiologies. Ann Transl Med 2021;9(7):605. doi: 10.21037/atm-20-6204.

Turban JL, Loo SS, Almazan AN, Keuroghlian AS. Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis. LGBT Health. 2021 May-Jun;8(4):273-280. doi: 10.1089/lgbt.2020.0437. Epub 2021 Mar 31. PMID: 33794108; PMCID: PMC8213007.

GIVE US A HAND! Become our patron: https://www.patreon.com/ThisJungianLife

RESOURCES: Learn to Analyze your own Dreams: https://thisjungianlife.com/enroll/

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

This is Shadowland, a new podcast experience from this youngy in life that explores the

0:18.5

lives of people who take refuge in the hidden places of our culture.

0:23.6

Lisa, Deb and Joseph collaborate with Songwriter Welles Henley, creator of I Wrote This

0:30.6

Song For You Podcast to bring insight, compassion and understanding to the obscured side of human

0:39.2

experience.

0:43.2

The 13th century mystic Rumi wrote, longing is the core of mystery.

0:51.5

Being itself brings the cure.

0:56.8

In that spirit we meet Beth, who was assigned female at birth and underwent gender transition,

1:05.6

including masculineizing hormone therapy and top surgery.

1:12.1

She has since detransitioned.

1:15.3

As a teen, she adopted a non-binary identity and over time came to believe that transitioning

1:22.2

to male would free her from the social constraints and physical vulnerabilities she associated

1:28.6

with her female body.

1:30.9

Over time, Beth discovered changing her body did not resolve her inner suffering, acknowledging

1:38.6

that each person has their own unique journey.

1:42.5

She hopes her story will help others appreciate the depth and complexity of gender transition.

1:51.1

To protect her identity, she has asked us to alter her voice and use the pseudonym, Beth.

1:59.9

Welles' song will be shared at the end of our discussion.

2:06.2

Hello.

2:09.2

Hello.

2:10.2

Thank you so much for being here with us.

2:13.0

Yes, welcome.

...

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