She says, look, we are living in a time when so many people are looking for their identities,

are looking for a simpler, you know, gentler way of life.

Then the Islamic State comes along and says, look, we can build something new together, something fresh together, something new, but also something that harkens back to the days that we've always been told are the most beautiful days in Islam, the days of the Prophet Muhammad. That's a pretty seductive potion right there.

Welcome to the unspeakable podcast. I'm your host, Megan Down. My guest this week is journalist

Carla Power. In 2017, Carla published If the Oceans Were Inc, an unlikely friendship and journey into the

heart of the Quran, which chronicled her friendship with a madrasa-trained sheikh and religious

scholar who led her through a deep reading of the Quran. That book was a finalist for both

the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award. In her new book, Homeland Security,

de-radicalization and the journey back from extremism, Carla, an American who spent large

parts of her childhood and adolescents in countries like Afghanistan, India, and Egypt,

confronts some of the questions she hadn't engaged with in her last book, namely,

what draws ordinary Muslims into violent extremist groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, and how

reliable are the roads back? Through dozens of interviews with ex-jihadis, their family members,

and those who seek to rehabilitate them, Carla connects the dots of a constellation of reasons and

motivations to join extremist groups. The patterns that emerge are both surprising. In one case,

an entire extended family was lured by the promise of a better life in the Islamic state,

and all too familiar. Social media plays a role, no surprise.

Carla spoke with me about what her reporting taught her about human loneliness,

cultural isolation, youthful impressionability, and most of all, how what's commonly referred

to as the Islamic world is in fact many worlds, each with their own characteristics and complications.

Carla Power, welcome to the unspeakable podcast.

Thank you. It's a delight to be here.

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