Scaling Laws: What Keeps OpenAI’s Product Policy Staff Up at Night? A Conversation with Brian Fuller

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 8 August 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Brian Fuller, a member of the Product Policy Team at OpenAI, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to analyze how large AI labs go about testing their models for compliance with internal requirements and various legal obligations. They also cover the ins and outs of what it means to work in product policy and what issues are front of mind for in-house policy teams amid substantial regulatory uncertainty.

Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,
0:25.2	Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath.
0:33.5	Hey, it's Adam Grant from Worklife, a podcast from TED. This episode is brought to you by FreshWorks.
0:40.1	FreshWorks believes the complexity is the enemy of efficiency.
0:43.3	So stop wrestling with bloated expensive service software that takes forever to implement an update,
0:48.4	where ROI is someday, not today.
0:51.1	You've been overcharged and underserved for way too long.
0:54.8	Uncomplicate with fresh service for IT and fresh desk for customer support.
1:00.0	And with FreshWorks AI-assisted service software, you'll work smarter, not harder.
1:05.1	FreshWorks uncomplicates.
1:07.3	Learn more at freshworks.com.
1:11.2	Imagine a world without borders, where money moves between countries fast and securely,
1:17.9	all without having to build or manage a complex infrastructure.
1:22.8	Introducing Visa Direct.
1:25.1	With Visa Direct, you can move money securely to and from 195 countries in 160
1:32.0	currencies. Move money your way. Learn more at Visa.com slash Visa Direct.
2:01.7	It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Alan Rosenstein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, and a senior editor and research director at Lawfare. Today we're bringing you something a little different, an episode from our new podcast series, Scaling Laws. It's a creation of Lawfare and the University of Texas School of Law where we're tackling the most important AI and policy questions, from new legislation
2:06.5	on Capitol Hill to the latest breakthroughs that are happening in the labs. We cut through the
2:11.2	hype to get you up to speed on the rules, standards, and ideas shaping the future of this
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Lawfare Institute, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of The Lawfare Institute and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.