Scaling Laws: Rapid Response to the Implications of Claude's New Constitution
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 23 January 2026
⏱️ 57 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Jakub Kraus, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, speaks with Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, about Anthropic's newly released "constitution" for its AI model, Claude.
The conversation covers the lengthy document's principles and underlying philosophical views, what these reveal about Anthropic's approach to AI development, how market forces are shaping the AI industry, and the weighty question of whether an AI model might ever be a conscious or morally relevant being.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Kevin Frazier, "Interpreting Claude's Constitution," Lawfare
- Alan Rozenshtein, "The Moral Education of an Alien Mind," Lawfare
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | It's the Lawfare Podcast. I'm Alan Rosenstein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of |
| 0:06.7 | Minnesota, and a senior editor and research director at Lawfare. Today we're bringing you something |
| 0:11.6 | a little different, an episode from our new podcast series, Scaling Laws. It's a creation of |
| 0:16.8 | Lawfare and the University of Texas School of Law, where we're tackling the most important |
| 0:21.0 | AI and policy questions, from new legislation on Capitol Hill to the latest breakthroughs |
| 0:25.8 | that are happening in the labs. We cut through the hype to get you up to speed on the rules, |
| 0:30.3 | standards, and ideas shaping the future of this pivotal technology. If you enjoy this episode, |
| 0:35.2 | you can find and subscribe to scaling laws wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on X in Blue Sky. |
| 0:40.8 | Thanks for listening. |
| 0:45.9 | When the AI overlords take over, what are you most excited about? |
| 0:53.7 | It's not crazy. It's just smart. |
| 0:56.4 | And just this year, in the first six months, there have been something like a thousand laws. |
| 1:00.7 | Who's actually building the scaffolding around how it's going to work, how everyday folks are going to use it? |
| 1:05.9 | AI only works if society lets it work. |
| 1:08.7 | There are so many questions have to be figured out and nobody came to my bonus class. |
| 1:13.6 | Let's enforce the rules of the road. |
| 1:17.3 | Welcome back to scaling laws, a podcast from Lawfare and the University of Texas School of Law |
| 1:23.6 | that explores the intersection of artificial intelligence, law, and policy. |
| 1:28.3 | I'm Jacob Krause, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, and today I'm talking with Alan Rosenstein, |
| 1:34.3 | Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, and Research Director at Lawfare, |
| 1:40.3 | and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, |
| 1:46.5 | a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a senior editor at Lawfare. |
... |
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