I don't have to really see anything.

Whatever you're comfortable with.

But we are now live.

Okay.

Hi, this is William Ramsey. Welcome to William Ramsey Investigates on today's show. I have a very special guest. His name is Joe Zimhardt. His last name is spelled S-Z-I-M-H-A-R-T, pronounced Zemhart. and he came to my attention after I was kind of surfing the web and came across

Steve Hassan's YouTube channel. And I saw that he had just published a book. The title of the book

we're going to talk about tonight is Santa Fe, Bill Tate, and me, how an artist became a cult

interventionist. I just completed it this morning. It's a fascinating book. It's full of

chalk full of wisdom about alternate religions

is a nice way of saying it. Although you could also categorize them as cults, but Joe has had

quite a lot of experience and put a lot of his wisdom into the book. So I'm delighted that

he agreed to the interview. Joe, are you there? Yeah, I am. Thanks for inviting me, Bill.

It's a pleasure. Awesome. Well, thanks so much. For people who may not have heard of you, can you talk a little bit about what led you to write this book? I mean, I know that's a long time's part of what's in the book because it's kind of a memoir, but can you talk a little bit about that, please? Yeah, sure. I started the project almost 10 years ago, and the idea was to answer the question,

how did you get into the programming?

What got you into exit counseling?

It sounds like an interesting field, and I thought, you know, it's a part of my life that I wanted to record mainly for my daughters,

because it's dedicated to my three daughters, because I wanted to let them know something about

what the old man did, you know, in that period of time that I was away from home.

And that means that the intervention work I did demanded a lot of traveling.

For instance, I was flown down to Australia about 18 times to Europe, a dozen times, to Canada, to Trinidad, and all over the States to do these interventions.

So, yeah, the book is a way to tell that story.

I did an earlier version of it that was rejected by publishers, but it was way too much

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