Hey everybody Kevin Rose here, welcome back to another episode of the Kevin Rose show.

Quickly swipe up if you're on iOS and I guess it's on Android like that as well.

Swipe up from the bottom and you could do a little quick multitask over to Instagram and follow me up at

the username at Kevin Rose on Instagram I'd appreciate it. Today my guest is Sam

Harris and Sam is an extremely well-known podcast host.

He created the podcast called Waking Up.

It has since been renamed to the Making Sense Podcast.

It's one of my favorites in rotation. I listen to almost every episode. He's a great host. He's also an author, really well known author, New York Times best-selling author, several times over, and he has

created books like The End of Faith and Waking Up, Free Will, and then also a book called Lying. Lying, I gotta tell you it is it's awesome. It's all about the white lies that we tell to other people and why we should avoid doing that and we should be direct and transparent with people and he really puts forward a great

argument for doing that. Highly recommend if you have an audible credit and you end up liking

this interview and Sam, download the book L Lying I think you'll really enjoy it is one of my favorites

Today though we're covering and talking about his meditation app waking up and the reason I want to have Sam on is because I just finished doing his 50-day

introduction course and I thought it was one of the best courses on meditation that I've

ever taken and I've done a lot of formal meditation training. I used to live across the street from the Zen center, the San Francisco Zen center. I was very lucky in that I just ended up buying a place that was like five doors down from that on Page Street in San Francisco.

And I would walk to the Zen Center and I could listen to Darma Talks. I could go and do Zazin and sit. And so I really got into meditation pretty early on.

Then apps started coming out, got into headspace, got into calm, and I realized that the one thing that was lacking from these

apps is that they were very prescriptive in nature, meaning that you would come in

and they had a pack for pretty much everything like a package of different meditation so if you had a fear of flying or you had some anxiety or you were dealing with a difficult breakup these types of apps would have a series of guided meditations that would bring you relief, which I think is a great thing

and certainly something that needs to exist.

I created a meditation app called Oak, which was trying to fill some of the gaps that I

thought weren't really out there. So we had a course on mantra-based meditation, which there isn't

really anything out there in the App Store, so we launched that. We did an unguided

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