I'm Molly Wansall and I'm Geoffrey Wansel and for the last 16 years or thereabouts we have been having lunch every Saturday and often our conversation turns to murder and that's what's prompted us to launch this true crime podcast called blood ties.

Hi everyone welcome back to the Blood Ties. I'm Molly Wansel and I'm here with my father, Jeffrey Wansel. Hello everyone, welcome back. Thank you for listening. Hope you're having a good week. We've had a good week, I think. Well, sort of. I seem to have been busy. Yeah, you have been busy.

Actually, I don't know exactly what you've been doing. I didn't see you last week. No, I don't know. I said rushing about. Well, no, no, that's not entirely true. I don't really rush about. But there seems to be a lot going on. I did some more World's Most Evil Killers. You did? we've nearly finished this series six one more to go two are that two shows one one one one one day but now they want to do series seven

there's always enough killers yes that's the thing. Yeah. Always an oculars.

But actually, these ones, they vary such a lot.

But I think the big multiples.

Yeah, one of the ones you did, I couldn't even send the file to you because it had so many photos

as there were so many victims.

11 victims, yes.

Big multiples, in fact, the case we're going to talk about today is a multiple, but it's slightly more straightforward.

Have you done him on killers?

Yup.

Yep.

Yep, I have. And so I've done that and I've

been prepping various other things. So it's a kind of, I seem to have been a bit pillar to post.

A busy man, it's what I like to see. Yes, well, I'm grateful for the opportunities, I have to say.

I'm constantly amazed that I'm still working.

It's kind of, it's a tribute to you, Mo.

You're the reason I'm working as hard as I am.

Well, you know, I like to keep you out of trouble.

Well, let me tell you, that's an excellent way of doing it.

Yeah, exactly.

...