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The John Batchelor Show

S8 Ep821: By sunrise, Tokyo is an "apocalyptic wasteland" of rubble and ash, with an estimated 105,000 people dead—a toll four times higher than the bombing of Dresden. Rescuers like Dr. Kuboto describe nightmarish scenes of bodies melted together in piles and rema

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Society & Culture, Arts, News, Books

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 4 May 2026

⏱️ 16 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

By sunrise, Tokyo is an "apocalyptic wasteland" of rubble and ash, with an estimated 105,000 people dead—a toll four times higher than the bombing of Dresden. Rescuers like Dr. Kuboto describe nightmarish scenes of bodies melted together in piles and remains floating in the rivers. On Guam, LeMay feels a sense of relief as reports indicate his gamble was successful and casualties were far lower than the predicted 70%. Despite the destruction, Emperor Hirohito and his aides continue to seek "one more victory" to improve their bargaining position at the surrender table. LeMay, however, immediately continues his campaign, burning out Nagoya, Osaka, and Kobe throughout the spring and summer of 1945. By the time the atomic bomb is tested in July, LeMay's conventional incendiary campaign has already destroyed nearly all of Japan's major industrial centers and secondary cities, doing the "heavy lifting" of the air war. 7/8
1964 LEMAY

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm John Batchel with James Scott, the author of Black Snow, Curtis Lamey, the firebombing of Tokyo,

0:10.3

and the Road to the Atomic Bomb. The poorest sections of Tokyo are on fire in a firestorm

0:16.0

that Tokyo has never seen before and might never actually happen again. This is a unique event in human history.

0:23.6

However, back in Guam, Curtis LeMay, who launched these 325 bombers,

0:28.6

and everyone on the Marianas and also back in Washington is waiting for results.

0:34.6

As James tells us, they expected up to 70% casualties. James, you provide

0:41.1

a human scene, LeMay can't sleep, and he and a colleague go for a couple of Coca-Cola's from

0:48.0

his Quonson hunt. They finally get word that there's light flack. What is their first understanding of the raid and how it's

0:56.2

going? You know, and LeMay is sort of always kind of this figure, you know, this sort of reserved guy,

1:01.4

you know, and he admits he couldn't sleep this mission. And so he doesn't, he lingers in the

1:07.7

operations center. And then he's finally, he's just stressed out.

1:11.1

He knows that one way or another, his whole career is going to be defined by what happens on this night, either by disaster or success.

1:19.9

And so it's a lot riding on him.

1:21.6

And so he does.

1:22.6

He connects with the press official for the 21st bomber command, who's in there kind of waiting to see what the results are so that he can release the stories that reporters have put together until LeMay says, let me get you a Coke.

1:35.7

And so they jump in his car, head over to his tent, and they grab some cooks and they sit there.

1:41.8

And LeMay is just totally distracted. he's rattling off about what his experience

1:45.3

was like in india and everything he's doing everything you can to distract him and to kill time

1:49.3

till they get back to the operations hut and then the first reports start coming in that there's no

1:54.8

flag there's not much fighter opposition that essentially the planes have gotten in and gotten

2:00.0

their bombs on target.

2:01.8

And he feels that first sense of relief then because all the expectation that they would

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