S8 Ep817: he Rise and Fall of Early Ukrainian Statehood and the Holodomor Following the 1917 collapse of empires, two short-lived democratic Ukrainian republics emerged but were crushed by larger powers like Poland and the Soviet Union. Joseph Stalin later solidifi

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🗓️ 3 May 2026

⏱️ 11 minutes

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Summary

he Rise and Fall of Early Ukrainian Statehood and the Holodomor

Following the 1917 collapse of empires, two short-lived democratic Ukrainian republics emerged but were crushed by larger powers like Poland and the Soviet Union. Joseph Stalin later solidified control through the Holodomor (1932-1933), a purposeful famine that killed millions of Ukrainians to break their resistance and fund Soviet industrialization. Stalin viewed Ukraine as a vital "breadbasket" and a security buffer against Western invasion. By 1945, though the landscape was devastated and its Jewish population largely annihilated, Moscow achieved its goal of total subordination, creating a myth of unified sacrifice. Guest: Professor Eugene Finkel. (3/8)
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0:00.0	This is CBS I in the World. I'm John Batcht, visiting with Professor Eugene Finkel.
0:10.1	His new book is intent to destroy Russia's 200-year quest to dominate Ukraine.
0:15.4	If you are puzzled these last years of the Ukrainian-Russian war, it's okay because the Russians and the Ukrainians have
0:23.0	been puzzled for centuries, maybe a thousand years. Are you Ukrainian? Are you Russian? Along comes
0:29.8	Lenin and his acolytes. Lenin is a Russian nationalist. I understand he talks about Marx. He talks
0:36.8	about communism. He's a Russian nationalist. His understand he talks about Marx. He talks about communism. He's a Russian nationalist.
0:39.9	His attitude towards Ukraine is the same as every other Russian in the middle classes, well-educated.
0:46.4	He's been to Europe. He believes that Ukraine is little Russia. So Lenin's Revolution,
0:52.3	1917, and then the Civil War begins, 1921.
0:57.0	And Ukraine is caught up.
0:59.2	But at the same time, the professor introduces us to two versions of the Ukrainian state.
1:06.6	We'll call one the UNR and one the ZUNR.
1:10.5	Who were they?
1:11.2	What were they?
1:11.8	What were their ambitions, professor?
1:14.3	Right.
1:14.7	So, 1917, 1918 empires collapsed the German Empire, but more importantly for our story,
1:22.3	the Russian Empire and the also Hungarian Empire.
1:25.2	When the Russian Empire collapses and the communists come to power in St. Petersburg,
1:33.5	people in Ukraine have other ideas. They don't want to be ruled by communists and they don't want to be treated like Russians anymore.
1:45.5	So they decide to go their own way and out of the collapse of the Russian Empire.
1:51.5	They create their own state, the so-called Ukrainian People's Republic,
	...

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