I'm John Batchel with Gregory Copley of Defense and Foreign Affairs, my colleague and friend,

and we're looking at a standoff over the Strait of our moves.

Is that what it's about, or is it about the contest between two extremely powerful organizations,

one with the military might and the other with a sense of history and martyrdom and sacrifice and that this is all written down in a story that's being played out by individuals who in some fashion aggrandize themselves.

They have the fate of a nation of 92 million people, a land larger than Germany, France, and Britain put together.

This is a big place.

Lots of things can go wrong.

Gregory, it started out as nuclear weapons program.

Then it moved to arsenals two.

And then it moved to regime change.

Now it's on the streets of Hormuz.

I don't know where it's going next, but that's what

we have right now. None of those points have been moved effectively. So in a standoff like that,

we need an outside voice. Is there such a thing? Are we looking at a Korea? Is this the Korean

Peninsula in the 21st century? I think it's even more murky than the Korean War was in the 1950s.

It's essentially between two groups of people who can't back down.

Now, Trump is trying to give the Iranian leadership pod a face-saving measure so that he can back off.

And the five people running Iran right now are just not giving it to him.

So essentially what we're saying is that the Iranians hold the upper hand, I think,

at this stage. If Trump is forced by tonight to go ahead with his threat to unleash hell on Iran,

he cannot win by that strategy. He will just get deeper into the Maya, as you say, a Korean

war type of situation in which I think his allies, the US allies around the world, would

...