I'm John Batchelor. I welcome my colleagues, David Shed, former acting director of the Defense Intelligence Agency,

and most importantly, the author with his colleague Andrew Badger, of a new book, Great Heist.

This is the story of China's epic campaign to steal America's secrets. Underway for many years now,

and we're playing catch-up,

but at the same time there's information here

that will be useful for the balance of the 21st century.

This book explores the various ways espionage has moved from human intelligence,

that would have been the famous Cloak and and dagger men of the 19th century,

into what we know today is robotics and cyberspace and espionage and crashing systems and

overwhelming them, and just generally working in an area that never can be seen except by

the most expert machines.

That is where we are right now with the People's Republic of China.

Joining us also as a week-to-week guide, I much depend upon at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy's,

Jack Burnham, who is not only expert in able to discern the

PRC's ambitions, but also guides me through the technical language of what is being

purloined by the PRC. I begin, however, with the general understanding that the e-hot topic, the one we're going to

feature right away, I've learned from Jack most recently, is robotics.

And it is striking to me, David, how robotics are being perloined or stolen or borrowed

in much the same way that it originally happened with AI or with chemistry

or with revelations in physics or with rocketry so that the PRC uses the same espionage techniques

again and again no matter of the field let's define robotics, you have a piece up saying that there's a piece

of legislation in the Senate by the minority leader, Mr. Schumer, and by a very senior on defense

...