I'm John Batchewith, my colleague Anatole Levin, the head of the Eurasia project program at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.

The surprise to me, Anatole, about the war is that there is business for Ukraine now in the Gulf that I believe never happened before.

Mr. Zelensky has dispatched more than a few, many, of his drone team to various

capitals in the Gulf looking for assistance because those drones from Iran have been getting

through air defenses and the U.S. is not seen as a reliable source of defense.

And so Ukraine suddenly has a friend in Dubai, a friend in Riyadh, I'm generalizing,

and a new business model.

This also suggests that the Gulf could be part of the decision-making about the war in Ukraine.

This looks like a positive development.

Is it?

Well, it's certainly a positive development from Iran's point of view.

And of course, from Ukraine's point of view,

and of course the Ukrainians are being paid for this,

and they very badly need the money. But it's important, of course, the Ukrainians are being paid for this, and they very badly need the money.

But it's important, of course, to point out that Iran, I keep saying Iran, I'm sorry, Ukraine can give expertise to the Gulf states.

But it can't give weapons because it desperately needs them itself. And so obviously, I mean, Ukraine's ability to help is limited.

I take it, though, as a way of talking about Ukraine being extremely flexible about survival,

because a source of defense and financial aid coming from the Gulf would be

a fresh wind in Keefe after all these years, all these months and years now, of wondering if

the U.S. is going to maintain its support. That's how I see it. Not more profound than that as of yet, its early days.

The other observation I see, and we just have a little time here, is that small wars become one

big war. Is that already, had that already happened, that what happens in Ukraine doesn't

...