I'm John Bachelor. I welcome my colleagues, Sadius Macotter American Greatness,

my co-host and friend from the

great city of Detroit, Michigan. And we're joined by Judy Dempsey of the Carnegie Endowment for

International Peace, a senior scholar. She is in Berlin. We turn immediately to a major interview with

Vladimir Zelensky, the president of Ukraine at at the four-year mark of a tragedy.

The war in Dunbass, the war in Ukraine, and Mr. Zelensky's remarks are both sturdy but

desperate, talking about missiles that can strike deep into Russia, talking about the Europeans, I believe the term

he used was prevaricating about their commitment to Ukraine, demanding immediate entry into the

EU, demanding immediate end of the war, not a ceasefire and end of the war. Judy, I begin with

you because the war is so much closer to you in Berlin that it ever could be

to me here in New England. The war has become normal, normative. The war has become somewhere down

the front page. The war has become not talked about. At four years, how would you characterize the

European treatment of the war tragedy? Good day to you. Good day, John, and today's. Thanks for

having me on your show, John. The Europeans, led by Germany and France and Great Britain and Poland and the Baltic states have really held firm vis-à-vis Ukraine.

What is extremely sad and very depressing is how Hungary and Slovakia, members of NATO, members of the EU are blocking a 90 billion credit line,

90 billion euro credit line to Ukraine plus the extension of sanctions because they want

Ukraine to facilitate the flow of Russian energy to Slovakia and Hungary. This is in the middle of a war where so many people have

been killed. And it is quite depressing that two EU member states can hold the European Union

ransom to this. This is the first thing. Secondly, I think the big countries are holding very, very

firm. I think also for the basic reason is that they can no longer believe that the Trump

administration will continue to support Ukraine, not even militarily, but politically. The flip side is that given the state of European

defence, Europeans have to buy so much of their kit from the Americans in order to supply

...