I'm John Batchel. The Business of America is Small Business, and I welcome Gene Marks, the small business columnist for the Guardian newspaper, UK edition, U.S. edition, our hometown newspaper, Philadelphia Inquirer, and other distinguished publications.

The number from the fourth quarter is 1.4% GDP. A disappointment. What is to be done? Gene, a very good evening to you.

I go to two macro numbers that I find indicative of the immediate future this winter.

One is the Philadelphia Fed talking about activity in February right now. And the other is Empire State Manufacturing Survey, also looking

for slight uptick in February. After that fourth quarter number print, there is discouragement

as to what is driving the economy. What I hear anecdotally is low hire, low fire, people holding onto their jobs, not so many, or if any,

help wanted signs in the windows. And restaurant traffic is on again, off again, on again,

off again. Do you hear differently, Jean? Good evening to you. Hi, John. No, it's not only I hear

differently, but, you know, I, you know, I, I, I see what's going on out there and I see, um, how companies are, are being affected not only by, by, by tariffs, but also about, you know, the economy in general. I mean, I spent a few days with a client of mine in Texas that's a logistics and shipping company and their revenues were flat this year compared to last year because the

shipping industry itself. And these guys are pretty well-known shipper. The shipping industry

itself has just been sort of in the doldrums. You know, and then, you know, this past, just

yesterday, I was in Houston speaking to the National Association of Chemical Distributors.

And these guys obviously provide chemicals and everything, you know.

So you pay close attention to the consumption of chemicals around the country.

And again, most of them are reporting flat or very modest, modest sales growth, even in the past six months.

So it's not like anybody is, you know, is jumping

for joy or, or in booming times. And by the way, that doesn't include all the doldrums, the

construction industry and home, you know, home retail, you know, real estate sales are in right now,

which continues on. You are right that, but the Philadelphia Fed Manufacturing Index and the Empire State,

the New York State Fed Manufacturing Index, both of them increased modestly in February.

Another good news also, John, is the Institute of Supply Managers, who I watch closely,

their index every month.

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