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The John Batchelor Show

S8 Ep264: THE DANGERS OF TRANSACTIONAL NATIONALISM Colleague Gregory Copley. Copley warns that suppression in republics often leads to uncontrollable demands for liberty, citing the collapse of the Shah's Iran and the USSR. He distinguishes between "tribal national

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Society & Culture, Arts, News, Books

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 30 December 2025

⏱️ 8 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

THE DANGERS OF TRANSACTIONAL NATIONALISM Colleague Gregory Copley. Copley warns that suppression in republics often leads to uncontrollable demands for liberty, citing the collapse of the Shah's Iran and the USSR. He distinguishes between "tribal nationalism," based on shared history, and "state nationalism," which is often transactional. Copley argues that transactional systems eventually fail because the state runs out of resources to trade for support, leading to corruption and the potential fracturing of society. NUMBER 14
1680 CHARLES II OF GREAT BRITAIN

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:34.9

This is CBSI on the world.

0:36.6

I'm with my colleague Gregory Copley, whose new book is about the transition

0:41.4

that we're witnessing right now from Republic to what comes next. The noble state is the book

0:49.4

governance options in an ignoble era. Autocracy. We can see it in smaller states easier than in the large states, but it's increasingly

0:59.0

now the option after republicanism.

1:03.4

In democratic states, so-called, and in authoritarian states, undemocratic states at

1:09.8

the same time.

1:11.0

Certainly Russia and China evidence large states that are smoothly moved into autocracy.

1:18.4

Gregory and I have talked recently about what's happening in West Africa

1:22.5

with three states that were democratic and are now autocracy.

1:28.6

Gregory, one of the things Republican states attempt to do when they're feeling this push

1:35.1

of autocracy is suppression. Does that work? Does that hold off the inevitable?

1:42.2

It holds it off only temporarily because what happens is that once you open the

1:50.0

the chest, the war chest and people see there's a whole world out there and opportunities,

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