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The John Batchelor Show

S8 Ep185: Foreign Minister Togo and the Japanese Supreme War Council: Colleague Evan Thomas highlights Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo as the sole civilian in Japan's "Big Six" council advocating surrender against military leaders demanding a "final battle," noting

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Society & Culture, Arts, News, Books

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 13 December 2025

⏱️ 12 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Foreign Minister Togo and the Japanese Supreme War Council: Colleague Evan Thomas highlights Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo as the sole civilian in Japan's "Big Six" council advocating surrender against military leaders demanding a "final battle," noting that facing assassination risks, Togo maneuvered the complex "stomach game" of Japanese politics, hoping unsuccessfully that the Soviet Union would mediate a peace settlement.

1933 TOKYO

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is CBS. I on the World. I'm John Batchel with Evan Thomas. His new book is Road to Surrender.

0:11.1

Three men and the countdown to the end of World War II in the Pacific. It is now the spring of 1945.

0:19.8

We turn to the Japanese point of view with a man by the name of Togo,

0:24.6

Shiniginori Togo. What is most striking about him is that he was twice in the cabinet.

0:31.4

The first time during the raid on Pearl Harbor, he resigned eight months after Pearl Harbor and retreated into his philosophy.

0:41.4

The second time, he was called back by the emperor, and he is in place for these last days of the war before and after the atomic bomb.

0:51.3

Evan, what do we need to know about Togo?

0:53.1

Because we spend a great deal of time

0:55.0

inside his point of view in these last hours. Japan is run by something called the Supreme

1:02.0

War Council, six people, war minister, chief of staff, the Army and Navy, Prime Minister,

1:09.5

they're all military people. The one civilian is Shiginori Toto.

1:13.5

He's the foreign minister.

1:14.8

And significantly, he's the only one who wants to surrender.

1:19.8

His goal, and he remains fixed on it, is to try to figure out how to get the emperor,

1:25.9

who is the nominal head of Japan, divine, but actually under the control,

1:32.0

pretty much of the military, his goal is to get the emperor to surrender. And that's why I focus on

1:37.9

him, because he's singular. He's the only one at the top who wants to do this. He succeeds,

1:43.3

but it is a close-run thing.

1:45.4

He's an unusual Japanese speaker you make the case because he's blunt. He's direct.

1:51.5

He doesn't spend a deal of time presenting what you'd have to say is ambiguous remarks.

1:58.5

And that is a strength or a weakness when he's dealing with the military?

2:04.2

Well, he's different. And it helps to have somebody who is blunt. But of course, the military

...

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