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The John Batchelor Show

S8 Ep179: PREVIEW — Jonathan Schanzer — "Darkness Visible": The Dangerous Power Vacuum and Rivalries in Syria. Schanzer characterizes contemporary Syria as chaotic "ungoverned territory" systematically attracting dangerous transnational actors including Hamas milit

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Society & Culture, Arts, News, Books

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 9 December 2025

⏱️ 3 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

PREVIEWJonathan Schanzer — "Darkness Visible": The Dangerous Power Vacuum and Rivalries in Syria. Schanzer characterizes contemporary Syria as chaotic "ungoverned territory" systematically attracting dangerous transnational actors including Hamas military operatives and Russian military and intelligence personnel establishing operational footprints. Schanzer documents that while the United States strategically lifts economic sanctions to encourage pragmatism and behavioral moderation from the new Syrian leadership, regional powers including Saudi Arabia and Turkey simultaneously compete for geopolitical influence over Damascus decision-making, creating overlapping and contradictory leverage efforts. Schanzer emphasizes that this fractured geopolitical landscape is further complicated by armed militia networks, Kurdish separatist forces, and foreign fighter contingents remaining throughout Syrian territory, resembling a "shattered chessboard" where multiple external powers attempt simultaneous influence operations while internal actors pursue autonomous agendas, creating a dangerously unpredictable and volatile strategic environment. 
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Transcript

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0:00.0

This is John Batchel, a conversation with colleague Jonathan Shanzer of FD, just back from the Middle East, about Syria.

0:08.4

Mr. Trump shakes the hands of a man named Al-Shara, Muhammad bin Salman's Fetz, a man named Al-Shara.

0:15.6

It's about Syria. He's the self-named former Al-Qaeda chief now president of Syria, but I list a number of cutthroats that are gathering in Syria.

0:26.4

This is ungoverned territory, meaning it attracts the likes of Palestinian Islamic jihad, Hamas, the Russians, the Druze have a national militia now to guard them, the Alawites,

0:40.1

all manner of desperadoes.

0:43.3

And why are they lifting sanctions?

0:47.5

Jonathan explains.

0:49.6

But much to learn about Syria.

0:52.5

Right now, it was darkness visible.

0:55.3

It's still darkness visible.

0:57.1

More tonight.

0:59.6

They don't, but they're still trying to save Syria from itself.

1:03.4

And so we're watching the United States.

1:05.6

We've already removed sanctions against this regime, despite the fact that it is led by al-Qaeda or reformed

1:14.1

al-Qaeda, depending on your perspective. And I think it was probably too soon to do this,

1:19.4

but the administration would like to try to empower pragmatists. We're watching the Saudis and

1:25.3

the Emirates and some of the other pragmatic Middle East states trying to woo Al-Shara into their orbit.

1:32.7

But at the same time, John, we are watching the Turks and the Qataris.

1:37.0

Of course, these are the Muslim Brotherhood actors we just discussed.

1:40.4

They are trying to woo Al-Shaara as well.

1:50.6

And then you have all of these disparate actors inside the Syrian state that don't get along.

1:59.1

And here, of course, we're talking about the embattled Alawites, the former allies of Bashar al-Assad, who's now in exile in Russia.

...

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