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This is John Batchel, a conversation with colleague Blaine Holt, General Blaine Holtz, United States Air Force, retired.

On the basis of a new book in Europe,

if Russia wins, what's next, what's the escalation look like? In this question, I ask, Blaine,

do we, the United States have to respond regardless of what NATO decides in the event that Russians

are moving towards their jump-off points? The answer is yes, but there are twists here.

Blaine Hold on what he can tell us about,

how the U.S. would respond watching imminent jump-off by Russian hostile.

Much more of this tonight in a conversation with Blaine about if Russia wins.

Yes, you may want to respond, but what then guys like me and the National Security Council

would urge the president is to look at what we call flexible deterrent options, meaning

there's many other things indirectly we can do to dissuade the Moscow appetite to go on the tack that they're going on.

Some of them financials, some of them are very, very clandestine, and some involve cost-impositions that I don't think the Russians would want to pay.

And so that's probably where our heads would be.