This is John Batchel, a conversation with my colleague and mentor Gregory Copley about NATO.

We're looking at NATO making no one happy and question of NATO existing at all.

Now, tomorrow, into the future.

There are inconsistencies.

There's lack of enthusiasm in the Western states, the rich ones. There's

overwhelming enthusiasm in the eastern states, the ones that are most threatened on the Russian frontier.

We also learn that there's a backdoor into NATO. It's called Ireland. Ireland is not part of

NATO, but part of it is, the northern part,

of what we're looking at is that the cables are exposed to the Western approaches to hybrid warfare.

Ireland has no Navy to brag about and needs help, needs to spend money. That's the western flank. The eastern flank

is spending money, Poland, the Baltics, Finland, but without the cooperation of the eastern

of the central part of Europe, especially Germany, is not at all clear that they can defend themselves.

For example, there's a new book called If Russia Wins. I recommend it.

Here's Gregory to comment on the unhappiness of NATO.

Well, not necessarily too cynical.

I'm not sure it's quite correct because I think the greatest proponents of NATO are the Baltic states and Poland and perhaps Finland as well, largely because they see the need for the United States.

And if you proposed a separate security structure,

which excluded a lot of the western and southern NATO states

and just had, you know, the Poland and the Baltic states and so on,

linked with the United States and perhaps Canada and Britain,

they would be even happier.

The fact is that Britain is also locked into NATO and is not even thinking about ways around

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