This is John Batchelor, conversation with colleague John Hardy of the Foundation for Defense

of Democracies about Ukraine and the negotiation 24-point plan, 19-point plan, many iterations in the

days ahead. But what John identifies are two unlikely pieces of the plan to be negotiated away by Ukraine.

One is the size of the military.

Right now, it's capped at 600,000 according to this document.

John does not believe that Russia has won that ability to name, that talent to name the size of the army it opposes.

And the other, especially the hard one that everybody focuses on is transfer of Ukrainian territory

to Russian hands, unlikely, unlikely. Here John explains. Much more of this tonight.

So from my perspective, I don't not see, I think Ukraine's battlefield situation is not good.

It, you know, it's probably not going to drastically improve.

But I also don't see the Russians, I don't see it deteriorating to the point that, you know,

the Russians are able to impose what they're, what they're demanding.

So, you know, things like dramatically limiting the size of the Ukrainian armed forces.

Like I think back during the 2022, Istanbul talks, the Russians demanded something like a cap of maybe $85,000, something in that ballpark.

Obviously, you know, well under what they have now and well

under even that Wittkoff proposed cap. I just don't see the Ukraine being in a position where they

have to accept things like that. We're drawing from large swaths of territory. That would be similarly

painful. You know, it requires some sort of referendum in Ukraine.

You know, I don't see, you know, even as once you want to go along with that, you know,

he'd have to sell it within Ukraine and he'd have to get, you know, people in the army to go

along too.

And some would, some might not.

...