This is Jenny Allen and you are listening to the Made for This Podcast.

Well, I'm excited today. I am fan-girling over here because one of the best

writers in the world is here on the podcast. So guys, everybody welcome Jen Pollack-Michel.

We are talking about spiritual disciplines this week. So guys, everybody welcome Jen Pollack Michelle.

We are talking about spiritual disciplines this week and she has an incredible new book that talks about

our faith and how we actually practice it and not just, you know just think our way to faith.

In fact, that's one of my favorite quotes

that you refer to in your book.

It says, don't just try thinking your way into faith,

but practice your way into faith. So talk just a little bit about your passion

behind this project because it's exactly what we're talking about this week.

I think for a lot of people, like the whole idea that I've got to think my way into faith or feel my way into faith feels like totally untenable like I don't even know how to do that you know and so just to give somebody some practical advice to say okay here are some things you can do not that we some

things you can do not that we can just put on faith because we do external things. You know, I really do

think that faith is a work that God does in our hearts, you know, as we surrender and trust him.

But for so many people and for myself included, that feels just too ethereal, like think my way into faith or feel my way

to faith. Okay, give me some practices, some habits.

And I think the whole book really is about this idea that habits can be a way to lead us to God.

And for you, has that been a struggle? What's the fight for you in that?

Well, I'm such a routine sort of person, so habits do come naturally for me. I think the

struggle for me is to kind of

constantly remind myself of what the purpose of the habits are, you know, that you can have

spiritual habits, you can have spiritual practices and disciplines. They're not the end. They're not the goal.

...