Hi, this is Colin Miller, one of the hosts of the Undisclosed podcast, filling in this week

for John Cryer as the host of the addendum episode on episode two of the Dennis Perry series.

I'm joined today by two guests.

First, we have Robin Warder.

He lives in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and is the host and writer of The Trail Went

Cold podcast, which has been around for two and a half years. He has a degree in script writing

and is previously published over 100 articles for websites such as cracked and list verse,

many of which have covered true crime. On the Trail Went Cold, every episode delves into a different

unsolved mystery and Robin offers his own theories

about what might have happened. Robin, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much for having me.

It's a pleasure to be here. And our second guest this week is Susan Simpson. Of course, she's one of

the hosts of the Undisclosed Podcast, as well as a co-host of the 45th podcast. She is also an attorney at the Volkov Law Group, and she blogs at view from L2.com.

Hey, Colin, and before we get started, just a quick note, you may have possibly heard me say last

episode, there was no dinner this week, but it turns out I can't read a calendar.

So here we are, and my apologies.

So delving into this week's episode of Undisclosed, in episode two of the State v. Dennis Perry,

we covered the two distinct phases of the investigation into the murders of Harold and Thelma Swain.

That first phase ran from the Swain's murders in 1985 and ended in 1990 when all of the leads, including Dennis Perry, had been ruled out.

And then the second phase started in 1998 with new lead investigator, Deputy

Dale Bundy, and ended with Dennis Perry's conviction. So moving into Robin, your involvement

with the case. On July 4th, you did an episode of the Trail Went Cold that covered the Swain case.

So first, can you tell us a little bit more about your podcast and then specifically what led you to

...