Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of theology and the Ross. So my guest today is Dr. Michael Jay

Gorman and this is one of those times when I kind of I don't know. I'm a little bit of a fanboy here. I've

been reading the works of Michael Gorman for over 15 years. I mean, he's a very well-known

established scholar in the field of New Testament and biblical studies. He is the Raymond E. Brown

Chair in biblical studies in theology, a position he's held since 2012 at St. Mary's Seminary and

University. He has an MDiv and PhD from Princeton Theological Seminary's author of many, many books,

including the one we talk about in this podcast, which is called reading revelation responsibly,

uncivil worship and witness following the lamb into the new creation, which is kind of a standard

work on the book of Revelation. And that's what we talk about on this podcast. I'm so excited for

this conversation. He's awesome. This dude is just so legit. He's a great scholar. He's a super

humble man of God and I'm excited for you to get to know him. They want to know Dr. Michael Jay Gorman.

Is it Michael or Dr. Gorman? What do you prefer? I didn't ask you off the line.

Michael's great question. Okay, okay, Mike. Yeah. And you're, I mean, you're obviously very,

accomplished scholar, but you're also a churchman, a lay level servant of the church. I mean,

I know you go to travel the world and teach theology in so many different contexts and you're,

you're a layman in the UMC. Is that right? That's right. Yeah, lay person in the, and you know,

United Methodist Church, or as I like to call it these days, just change two letters, the untied

Methodist Church. What does that mean? Well, there are so many divisions going on right now

within the Methodist Church, you know, over sexuality issues and so forth. So we're untied from one

another. We're untied from our roots. We're just untied. But anyhow, yeah, I mean, I have always been

deeply rooted in the church within three days. Sunday, I will have helped my wife with children's

church. I did then lead an adult Sunday school on the Apostles Creed. And then yesterday

...