this podcast. So today's topic is one that I think is maybe a little bit more of a newcomer

to the modern homesteading scene. It's definitely not a newcomer to the old-fashioned homesteading

scene of our ancestors. But it's one that as, you know, personally is a modern homesteader,

it didn't come into my awareness until much later into my homesteading journey. But what

I love is I'm seeing more and more people talk about this in homesteading circles online

and I think that is so important. And that topic is the idea of building community and investing

in our local towns and cities. And how can we do more? Like maybe we have our farm, maybe

we have our own sustainability, but how can we really start serving those around us? And I'm

seeing more chatter about this. And so I wanted to go straight to the source today. I found

the most amazing organization called Strong Towns. And I am so pleased to have with me today

Norm Van Eden-Petersman, who is a member advocate with Strong Towns. So welcome, Norm.

Thank you so much, Jell. It's great to be on the podcast.

Yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation. So I think just to give everybody a little background,

could you kind of tell us how you are, how you came into this world and then a little bit about

what Strong Towns does? Yeah, sure. So I grew up on a dairy farm in southern Alberta and it was

in that context that I always experienced what I perceived to be sort of a vision of what the

city life looked like, which was kids just running around in neighborhoods having a grand time while

I was somewhat isolated on the farm, having to work way harder than anybody else my age,

and just being responsible for more things at a younger age. And so there were all of the benefits

of that, but also some of the drawbacks from a social perspective over time as I went off to

university and then served as a Christian pastor for 10 years. During that time, what I realized

is that the communities that people that I knew were living in were actually not themselves

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