This is a global player original podcast.

Business is racist and sexist to the max.

The rules were written by men.

Then they say to women and people of color, come in and play.

And by the way, we're going to judge you as if you were a white man.

Hi, I'm Spencer Matthews and welcome to my new podcast, Big Fish.

Join me each week as I sit down with famous CEOs, fantastic entrepreneurs, incredible

designers and other famous faces to discuss what it takes to be the best.

Ursula Burns, where do I start?

She is an absolute powerhouse.

She's the first black woman to be CEO of a Fortune 500 company,

and she came from absolutely nothing.

Now I'm going to be honest with you,

I was more nervous about this interview than the

others. Ursula is our chairperson at Cleanco, which essentially makes her my boss. Look, I loved

chatting with her and I hope you enjoy the episode, but she's intimidating.

From modest beginnings, shall we say, to Forbes, ranking you the 22nd most powerful woman in the world. How did that happen? First of all, let me correct your statement about modest beginnings.

My beginnings were essentially at the lowest rung of the ladder that you could possibly imagine. Modest beginnings would have been a step up for my family.

My mother, a single immigrant parent of three children had absolutely nothing.

She came to the United States when she was 25 with my father, who quickly exited seen right

and left my mother with her charges.

And how I became what I am is all based on this one starting point, right, this one person, this, what I call this maniacal, crazy woman who was so focused on the only assets she had in the world, which were her kids.

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