Revenge Lawfare, Roman Precedents, and the Threat of Civil Conflict The Friends of History Debating Society discusses "lawfare," described as a simple, high-stakes political conflict where failure to "kill the king" results in logical retaliation. The con

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John Batchelor

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🗓️ 13 October 2025

⏱️ 17 minutes

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Summary

Revenge Lawfare, Roman Precedents, and the Threat of Civil Conflict

The Friends of History Debating Society discusses "lawfare," described as a simple, high-stakes political conflict where failure to "kill the king" results in logical retaliation. The conversation centers on the American "emperor" (Mr. Trump), who, following attacks during his interregnum, launched "revenge lawfare" upon re-election. The effectiveness of this lawfare is evidenced by the pervasive anxiety resulting from indictments. Recent targets included the Attorney General of New York and the former director of the FBI. This practice is viewed by supporters of Mr. Trump as condign and appropriate punishment following a perceived miscarriage of justice. The speakers fear that escalating cycles of political warfare, particularly if institutionalized by successive administrations, could lead to civil war, a situation Rome experienced repeatedly with figures like Sulla, Pompey, and Caesar. A cautionary example is given of Emperor Titus, the son of Vespasian, who promoted stability by ending the practice of treating slander and libel as treason. Germanicus(Michael Vlahos) and Gaius (John Batchelor) conclude by noting the need to address lawbreaking, but caution against institutionalizing punishment for standard civic discourse.

1880 SULLA SACKS ROMW (82 BCE)

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0:28.2	This is the Friendsfisher Debating Society. I'm Guy's Germanicus this year, and we've been discussing vast amounts of warfare. We're going to turn to something else that doesn't require
0:35.0	a large landscape. Just a courtroom or maybe just some headlines
0:39.4	in the 21st century. It's called lawfare. And it defines itself as, it's only played by
0:45.8	players who understand this ain't beanbag, politicians. And lawfare works simply. You either
0:53.6	kill the king or he's coming back at you. Okay, everybody understands
0:58.3	that. When you strike at the king, you must kill him. And if you do not, what comes next is logical.
1:05.4	Right now, it appears that the strikes at the emperor when he was interregnum, when he was without skill sets, without
1:14.0	defenses, without circles of friends, without people hanging on his word, that in-between
1:20.7	period, he was attacked again and again with lawfare, and he held it off as best he could.
1:27.2	There were disappointing results.
1:30.3	But what it came to is he was re-elected to the emperor position. And now he's launched
1:36.9	revenge lawfare. Is it effective? My case, and I submit this Germanicus to Germanicus, is effective, is that he's doing it.
1:50.7	The indictments themselves, the accusations, the possibility of more indictments, large groups of people saying, am I next?
1:58.4	Anxiety everywhere. That's the success. He doesn't need to be Sulla with a
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