Every food that does contain fat, which is virtually all of them, contains all three fats and people should know the three fats are saturated fat, mono unsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat.

Why would nature put all three fats in every food? If one of them were trying to kill you and then they say all unsaturated fat is super heart healthy and saturated fat is heart catastrophic.

So you're trying to tell me that my steak that's got seven grams of fat per hundred grams and you're trying to tell me that five of those grams are trying to save my life and two of those grams are trying to kill me.

Well, according to Dr Zoe Harkham, PhD, we might want to rethink what we think we know about saturated fat and cholesterol, so get ready for a deep dive this week.

I'm Lizarl, so welcome to the Lizarl Wellbeing show. This is the podcast helping us all to have a better second half. As you know, I'm on a bit of a mission to find ways for us all to thrive in later life by investing in our health and our wellbeing today.

And one of the most important dietary guidelines and public health messages to have become widely acceptable, not only just in the UK but globally, is that saturated fat is bad for us and so is having high cholesterol, both pretty much undisputed fats in the world of dietary doctrine or are they?

Well, as someone who's written extensively about the health benefits of fats and oils over the years, my very first book, in fact, written over 30 years ago now was called vital oils because, well, they are just that vital for our health.

I am not so sure and I've been an interested observer of the work in this area of Dr Zoe Harkham.

She is a Cambridge maths graduate, a brilliantly analytical researcher and public health nutrition specialist who studies in this area are some of the most in depth and specifically focused to be found in the world.

Well, she joins me here to dissect the research and all I can say is you better have your pencil and paper at the ready because it is going to be an in depth highly detailed, most fascinating, not to mention controversial conversation.

So it is such a pleasure to have you back on the show. I think my listeners here know I'm a real fan of your work and I look forward every Monday to getting your note that drops into my inbox.

It's always compulsive reading, so thank you for making the time for us today.

Oh, thank you for having me. That's really kind. Thank you for your kind words as well.

No, really, I know that you're tireless in this and very much evidence-based, which is what we need.

And I'm just so looking forward to this because you and I have been working in the world of fats and oils for a long time.

You know, my very first book was called Vital Oils nearly well over 30 years ago now.

So this is something that I feel personally very strongly about and I get asked about it time and time again. You know, fat is bad.

We need to take fat out of the diet, saturated fat, we need less of et cetera, et cetera.

So you are really known for dissecting public health, particularly the dietary advice and the journal articles on nutrition that we get.

And in fact, I know that you were the first person to examine the evidence base for the dietary fat guidelines at the time of their introduction back in the UK.

I think that was 1983.

So can we talk about what you found then and, you know, why you think it's so important to scrutinise the evidence, particularly on fat that the public's presented with now?

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