This is the Hidden Killers podcast with Tony Bruske and continuing coverage of the case against Karen Reid.

Yeah, there's a lot here.

So we're just going to dive right in.

One of the latest things that's gone down here in the trial of Karen Reed over the last handful of days,

a man named Judson Welcher marched into that courtroom.

And he kind of changed the game, came in with the science, with the facts, with really

undisputable facts about vehicle where it was, his phone, how the vehicle pretty much struck

John O'Keefe without a doubt.

Now, in tension, that's a whole other thing.

But I think he walked away out of there.

It's still in there right now, actually.

I think he walked out of the prosecution's direct laying down some very hard things that I don't know are going to ever exit

the jury's mind. Joining me to discuss, Robin Drake, retired FBI special agent, former chief

of the counterintelligence behavioral analysis program. Thoughts on Mr. Welcher.

Yeah, wow. Every week, we dive in, Tony and I give you a swinging pendulum here. And it's not swinging wide each week. It's a little bit of defense this week, a little bit of prosecution this week. Well, with his testimony this week, we are way over on prosecution. I am finally happy to see some hardcore objective data. There's no subjective

people. There's no opinions. This is just like hard facts and science that came into the courtroom

finally. And the way he's presenting it is so good. So not just him as a researcher, scientist, and an expert in his field,

where he's very methodical about everything, very detail-oriented on any, you can tell he's paying

attention to every single question. So that's what the other part I want to get into is even

as watching defense trying to go at him today, he listens

to every specific word defense says. And before even answers, he gets clarifications. He has the

defense understand the question better so he can answer it better. I mean, he is, if defense was doing

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