Hello and welcome to an episode of Iway with Jamila Jamil, a podcast against shame.

Today's episode is such an important chat, it's such an important conversation, it's one that's not

had enough and so I thought I would boldly have it for you on this

podcast with my excellent guest Grace Campbell. She's been on this

podcast before but always as a comedian and a writer and an actor and director she's a total

superstar but this time she's on as a woman talking to other women and anyone else

who can get pregnant about the intricacies and the complicated

side of abortion.

And when people like me talk about abortion, I don't know if you know, but I had one when I was 26, and it was tough as they always are,

but generally something that I looked very quickly upon as an incredible relief that massively saved my life in every single way that it could.

And not everyone is lucky enough to have such a straightforward experience of abortion and so for grace it was hard it was

hard it was full of complicated feelings she didn't feel that instant relief

that I felt she didn't feel that instant relief that I felt. She didn't feel that instant freedom and not everyone does.

But because we're fighting so hard for our right to abortion,

there is this terror of saying anything negative about it in case that is weaponized

by the people who are trying to take away our reproductive rights.

And while I understand why that happens, that's very unhelpful sometimes because then

it means that this important conversation doesn't get had.

And as an abortion rights advocate, it was imperative for me to make sure that I include

this side of the story when we talk about abortion and I don't think it harms the

movement and I talk about that later in this episode I think it's just important that everyone has a voice and it's not to say

that grace regrets having the abortion because she certainly doesn't but it

...