Hello, everyone. My name is Rebecca Parsons, Chief Technology Officer for ThoughtWorks, and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the ThoughtWorks Technology Podcast. And I'm here with my co-host, Neil.

Welcome, everyone. My name is Neil Ford. I'm a director, software architect, and a meme wrangler here at

ThoughtWorks. And we are pleased today to be joined by two of our colleagues, Martin Fowler and

promote Satellich. Welcome, gentlemen. Martin, hello. Hello, ma'am. So what we'd like to talk about today is a book that I consider the book with the greatest

disconnect between its level of importance and the understanding and knowledge of the book

in the market.

And that is a book that Promote wrote several years ago with Scott Ambler

called Refactoring Databases, which does have the subtitle of evolutionary database design.

And Neil continues to suggest to promote, just re-release the book, but swap the title and the subtitle for

evolutionary database design and then refactoring databases.

Which would make it one of the most popular books in the microservices world, without a doubt.

So we'd like to talk a little bit about the history of the book, the concepts. So let's start to promote.

Where'd the idea come from? So I'm joining Parkosley back in May of 99. And I was put on this

project called Atlas at that time. And we had a big binder of use cases, functions of them.

And then we also had a PR diagram with 600 plus tables and a bunch of stuff, like a big upfront

design.

We were not in doing any other stuff at that time.

And then Martin and Ward basically came into coaches,

and I remember that David Brahe,

met Femel, Shaw,

and much of us were excited about what is this new Ajail stuff.

So the iteration one planning came about,

...