Welcome to Think Biblically, conversations on faith and culture, a podcast of

Talbot School Theology here at Biola University. I'm your host Scott Ray,

Dean of faculty and professor of Christian ethics. I'm your your co-host, Sean McDow,

professor of apologetics.

We have a fascinating subject on the topic of shame.

Now, if you hear the word shame

and are tempted to turn away for various reasons, let me

encourage you not to turn away because we're actually going to give an

apology for shame, a defense of shame when it's properly understood it's a beautiful emotion that fits

right within the Christian worldview and beyond our guest today Greg Tenel Chef

teaches philosophy at Biola along with Scott and I and he's

written a fascinating book is called For Shame Rediscovering the virtues of a

maligned emotion.

That topic alone intrigued me,

and I was reading the forward,

and Jackson Wood describes your book

as an apology for shame, meaning a defense for shame which is not typically how people

think about shame so why would shame need defending well thanks for having me on the show.

First of all, why does shame need defending it?

It needs defending for the reason that anything would need defending.

It's getting beat up on, and it's getting beat up on by all quarters.

It's being maligned in Christian circles,

...