You're listening to the Allender Center podcast with Dr. Dan Allender. This week, Dan continues

talking with Steve Kahl about the dynamics that fuel disconnection in marriage and about how

couples can begin to cultivate meaningful connection once again. Dan and Steve explore how

reconnecting to one another is not possible without deep empathy,

honest engagement of trauma, and the fundamental art of play.

Steve, you talk well about the intersection of shame and trauma, and you do it with such kindness, but such depth.

So take us into the role of trauma in our own struggle with shame?

Well, part of what is really difficult sometimes is that at times we're not really even aware that trauma does impact our marriage and our dynamic.

And, you know, you've talked so much about trauma and the way it is embedded in the way that we, in our style of relating with one another.

And trauma just has this underlying sense that the other is off limits, that my need or access for him or for her is off limits. We have this fairly fundamental

response in our trauma story that sometimes leads us to be cautious, to be careful, to be

hypervigilant, and sometimes trauma impacts the way in which we view our need for our spouse that again like

we just said a little while ago that that that he or she is off limits I ought not to need

we have these relational responses that are deeply connected to the trauma of our own story

you know and I work when I work with couples and we're working through some of the trauma,

what is so critical and important and helpful

is the awareness that our spouse has when we are triggered

by something within our own story

that is being reenacted or re-experienced

within our dynamic between each other.

So that's one of the, I think, one of the most helpful, fundamental ways of creating that

understanding and awareness is helping couples be aware of, oh, that's what's happening.

...