Hi, I'm Miami Alec. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. Today, in honor of Mental Health Month, we've got a really special revisiting of an episode that resonated with so many in our audience last year with Joseph Wynn. Joseph is the New York Times best-selling author of an incredible, very simple and very elegant book called Don't Believe Everything You Think. Why you're thinking is the beginning and end of suffering. It's like he wrote everything that was in my mind. I say, my, don't think like that and you won't suffer. Well, Joseph blew up on social media in particular with younger folks. And actually, this is a book I gave to both of my sons. He helped a lot of people realize that we truly can go beyond our own thinking and our own conditioning and live an abundant life that is free from suffering. He helps us break down how to find inner peace with practical tips that put a stop to overthinking rumination and how to actually start letting go of the thought patterns, behaviors and relationships that no longer serve us. We also talked about meditation, why your current practice might not be working and what you can do to shift that. He also talked about his own rock bottom that he hit and the transformation that he made so that he could stop suffering. We got so much positive feedback on this episode when it originally aired. So if you have not heard this episode or if you need the reminders of tools to cope with anxiety, recover from burnout and manage workplace stress, this is the perfect conversation to tune into. And we're re-airing it now in honor of Mental Health Month. Just before we get to that, here's a crazy thought. Check to see if you're subscribed. Don't miss a single episode of Mind be Alex Breakdown and if you want more content that is not available anywhere else, I'll add free checkout Mind be Alex Breakdown on Substack. And now we hope you enjoy this episode with Joseph Wen. Joseph Wen, welcome to the the breakdown. Thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor. I love this book. I also love that it's a small book. Like it feels almost like it could fit in your pocket. The wisdom in it is very, very much like the kind of wisdom you'd like in your pocket. If I write a book, that's the size of book I want to write. I want to start with

one of the little sayings. Most of us only change when the pain of holding on to what we're attached to is greater than the fear of the unknown. This sort of taps into what I think a lot of people are coming to this book with, meaning I want to change.

I don't like how things are going.

I keep doing therapy. I keep working out. I keep dieting. I keep taking drugs. I keep drinking. I keep going to find the right partner. I'm trying to find the right job. I keep moving. I keep cutting people out of my life. I keep adding people to my life. And fundamentally, for a lot of people, nothing's changing. Can you talk a little bit about what is plaguing us? What is this kind of annoying need to change and be okay? And how do you frame that in terms of how scary that is? Yeah, that's one of my favorite poems from the book and we always want to be growing. We always want, but at the same time paradoxically we don't want to change. And so we can't have one without the other. And so with this book specifically, what I was trying to kind of unveil was, I mean, specifically in my life, I tried changing everything as well. I tried meditation, I tried all sorts of therapy, CVT, I tried acupuncture, acupressure. I even went vegan for quite some time to see if the foods that I was intaking was affecting my psychological and emotional well-being.

So everything that I did, it worked to a certain extent.

But then it wasn't long-term, it wasn't lasting. It didn't give me the actual changes that I was looking for. And the reason was because in life, we're always going to be exposed to a lot of different challenges, traumas, and difficulties. That is never ending. And so if we try to change our external circumstances without changing our own internal being, or more specifically, our own psychological frameworks with how we view the world, our own thinking is what I use in the book, then nothing will change. Everything outside will change, but we'll still feel like we're not doing enough, we aren't enough that we're not lovable, that we still have to do more in order to earn enough approval, love, respect. And that was the reason why I decided to write the book was because I tried changing everything outside of me, and that still didn't work and achieved a decent amount of success, enough money, having a house, having a partner, and all of these things that seemingly went well, but I was still

written with an insane amount of anxiety and psychological suffering every single day.

And it wasn't until I changed my own thinking that everything around me started to change. And it wasn't even the external things as just me that changed. A lot of the wisdom that you share and that you encapsulate and sort of explain in this book, much of it comes from Eastern philosophy, Eastern religious practice in some cases, but the problems that we are plagued by, they're timeless and also there is a different set of pressures that I think a lot of people are feeling today. Can you speak a little bit to what some of the modern day, you know, pressures are and why, you know, this kind of ancient wisdom can still be helpful. Yeah. So back then, I mean, a lot of this stuff, you correctly kind of insinuated that it does come from Eastern philosophy. Some of it Western as well. A lot of Christianity influenced as well since I was born and raised Catholic. All of this stuff, I mean it's under thousands and thousands of years and people still follow certain religions and certain Eastern practices and so it still works. For me, some of the issues with trying a lot of those different modalities was that it kind of isolated me from the real world. It was very, very difficult to find out how to actually integrate these Eastern practices into daily life. How do I seemingly meditate while I'm in a meeting with my boss or having some sort of conflict with interpersonal relationships. That becomes very difficult. And I always like to say, it's relatively easier to become among in the middle of mountains where you're isolated and there's no one around and find peace there. But if you try to find peace in the middle of New York City in Times Square and rush our traffic, then tell me if you're able to meditate and let that go,

like that's the true test, right? In like in real life, that was really what I was trying to tackle. How do we make it more applicable? How do we make it simpler? And so back then, I mean, a lot of the issues and challenges were more physical. So meaning we didn't have enough food, we didn't have enough water, we didn't have shelter. Those things are very difficult to go through.

But even still, back then hundreds or even thousands of years, people were still suffering psychologically. People were still quite anxious, quite depressed, and things like that. Probably less so back then than nowadays. But now the war has gone from the physical realm into the psychological or spiritual realm. And that's mainly because we have more time. So we're not working as long hours or as hard hours as back then, but now the fears have evolved from maybe, let's say, our physical lives and being afraid of potentially dying, but now the fears have shifted from that to if I am not loved by my friends, people at work or anyone else, like what's the point of living? If I don't have the approval of others and things like that, if I don't make it quote unquote and become successful, then I'm a nobody and I'm insignificant and I'm worthless. So why would I keep continuing to live my life? So those are the shifts that have happened, but still, I the root of it all is one thing,

and it's been the same for millennia, which is fear. Fear is actually what we're tackling here, and that was, you know, it ludes back to the quote that you were saying in the beginning, which is, you know, until the pain of, you know, where we are is, you know, greater than the fear of the unknown. when we actually make that shift.

The pain is usually a great catalyst and motivator

to jump into the unknown. That's when we actually make that shift. The pain is usually a great catalyst and motivator to jump into the unknown straight into fear. And it's only on the other side of fear that we find everything that we want and are looking for. My MBS breakdown is supported by optimizers. You know, I struggled to get good quality sleep and I just assumed it was stress. But as I learned during paramanopause and menopause, your hormones shift in a way that affects your magnesium levels. And low magnesium, it makes everything harder, not just sleep, focus, mood, your tolerance for stress. That's why I have added magnesium breakthrough by by optimizers to my nightly routine. It's a blend of seven different forms of magnesium designed to support relaxation and overall sleep quality. Try it, See if you wake up more rest and refreshed. You've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. Bi optimizers offers a 365 day. No questions asked money back guarantee. Magnesium breakthrough is a huge breakthrough to improve hormonal balance, to help with focus, decrease brain fog, improve sleep hygiene overall by optimizers makes it very easy.

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some of the Jewish lives and institutions that have shaped American life. From food to music and comedy, thoughtful, joyful, and always honest, that's wondering Jews with Michal and Noam, a production of Unpacked. Find it on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube and make sure to hit subscribe. Check out Wondering Jews with Michal and Noah podcast and subscribe at unpacked.bio-nmx. What did your suffering look like? You talked about all the things you tried, and I think it's interesting to explore some of those in the shortcomings, but what did suffering look like for you? Yeah, great question. So my story goes back to my parents, and that was the main reason why I kind of went down this path. My parents immigrated from Vietnam in the 80s and kind of flopped over here in Florida. And mostly because it fell to the communist back then. And so my dad had a decision to make, which was to either fight for the communist or to escape. And so he chose to just leave. And he became a refugee in Thailand. And after about a year or two, he was able to come over to the US. My parents met over here. And their primary goal was to give their kids a chance that they never had back then in their in their country. Knowing that they also started businesses over here. So my mom started a vital business. My dad started multiple gas station chain stores. After the O8 crash, he lost essentially everything. And my parents went into just over a million dollars worth of debt. So growing up, I felt a lot of that financial pressure from them.

They would hide it really well,

but I could, you know, as kids,

you can always feel what they're thinking and going through,

...