Rational Security: The “Working the Refs” Edition
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 15 January 2025
⏱️ 80 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Roger Parloff, Renée DiResta, and Tyler McBrien to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:
- “The Art of the Heel.” As President-elect Donald Trump’s inauguration nears, the various legal cases against him are gradually winding down to their inevitable end. But Trump is not letting them go quietly: instead, he has fought certain final steps tooth and nail, ranging from the (mostly meaningless) sentencing in his New York case to the final release of the report that Special Counsel Jack Smith is obligated to write. How do these various threads seem like they will resolve? And what will the legacy be for presidential accountability?
- “Make Meta MAGA Again.” The recent election appears to be triggering a wave of changes in corporate America, as a number of leading tech companies like Meta have begun quite publicly breaking down disinformation protections, paring back DEI programs, and eliminating offices and personnel that have long peeved conservatives. And even CEOs who have not implemented such changes have seemed eager to meet with Trump at his home in Mar-a-Lago. How much of this shift is smoke and how much is fire? And what might it mean in the long term?
- “Embracing a Growth Mindset.” President-elect Trump sent shivers through the international community last week when he refused to rule out the possibility of using economic coercion or even military force to expand U.S. territorial control, specifically over Greenland and the Panama Canal, two allied foreign territories that he has previously identified as having a direct bearing on U.S. national interests. How realistic are his threats? And what are the ramifications likely to be?
In object lessons, Tyler shared why there seem to be so many Australians in Brooklyn, as reported in “Bogans in Brooklyn,” from The Baffler (say that three times fast). Roger recommended “V13: Chronicle of a Trial” by Emmanuel Carrère, for coverage of a different trial than the ones he's been used to. Scott, in a stubborn refusal to admit that the holidays are over, was jolly about the Netflix movie “That Christmas.” And Renée reflected on AI’s potential to help people reach consensus through democratic deliberation and supernotes.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising. |
| 0:04.4 | To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare |
| 0:10.8 | at patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings. Rational Security, Chatter, |
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| 1:04.9 | I know Roger Renee, I think you guys both are parents, and I have had like a small, unintended parental win. I am like eager to share. |
| 1:13.1 | Can I share it with you all? Tyler, it's maybe a little less interesting to you, but I have, |
| 1:17.4 | which a very bad habit that came out frequently over the holidays of getting exasperated, |
| 1:23.3 | sometimes with my children, sometimes with other things, and just putting my head in my hands |
| 1:26.9 | and just saying, using the Lord's name in vain. And unfortunately, my newly-christian four-year-old son |
| 1:32.6 | has developed the same habit, but has a slight listening tick. And so when he gets frustrated now, |
| 1:38.9 | I see him visibly put his head in his hands and mumble under his breath, cheez-its, which is great. So he thinks, A, I hate Cheez-I-S-It's, which is fine. |
| 1:48.8 | I'm not a you Cheez-It's pan. And B, really gives him, like, you know, a way to express himself. |
| 1:54.5 | But I think this is a big win for me. I'm wondering how long I can stretch this out before I have to |
| 1:58.9 | confess that I'm doing something a little less appropriate, |
| 2:01.2 | even than he's recognized. |
... |
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