Hey, it's Kai and I want to share a conversation from our archives about the culture of policing.

We're of course still following the story in Memphis of the police killing of Tyree Nichols.

This is yet again a story about the police killing an unarmed black person who doesn't appear

to have had any reason to be interacting with the police in the first place.

And while we were covering one of the many previous cases of this nature,

I talked to a former police officer, Mark Claxton. He's now the public affairs director

for an organization called the Black Law Enforcement Alliance and he's a vocal advocate for reform.

But he spent two decades serving in the New York Police Department and based on that experience,

he says his former profession must either, quote, evolve or die. We spoke in April of 2021.

Take a listen. Mark, thanks for coming on the show. It's great to be here.

Thank you so much for the invitation. So you first joined the NYPD in 1985,

which was more than 35 years ago now and a very different New York City.

I just wonder what drove you to join in the first place like in, you know,

what were you facing then versus what you faced toward the end of your career?

That's a great question. What compelled me to join the NYPD was my, my mother.

My mother's desire for me to have a good paying job with benefits long term.

And I remember as a young man with her saying to me, you know, oh, you have an opportunity

to retire in 20 years. You have no idea how big that would be and I didn't at the time.

But that was really the motivating fact that that's a really drove me to take the exam.

Literally she drove me to take the exam. Of course, like so many other people, I have a strong

desire to help and assist people. That's every cop's answer. But that also played a role.

But the determined factor was my mother's motivated me to do that for the security of it.

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