I go across that park when I'm in California checking it out.

I look at the vastness of that and I go, so this is what 100,000 acres of wild lands looks like.

And the cartels 10 years ago had that much of our land under siege with these poisons.

Absolutely crippling when you put it in perspective.

I mean, it's got to be millions of acres nationally, but I couldn't put a full,

I couldn't put a number on it, but a couple million acres, and I'm going to say that's

conservative, man.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Change Agents in Iron Cloud Original, presented by Firecracker Farm. On today's show, we're going to be talking about cartels, a legal

growth in the current state of America's wildlands. My guest today for this topic is John Norris.

If you are a fan of the show, you've seen him on before.

For those of you who have never been introduced to John, he served as a game warden and lieutenant

with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife for more than 25 years, retiring in 2018.

John spent most of his time patrolling California Wildlands, investigating poaching, environmental

crimes, and illegal wildlife trafficking. He has survived four officer-involved shootings, spearheaded missions, and eradicated millions of plants,

seized countless firearms, and removed tons of toxic chemicals from fragile ecosystems.

Beyond John's work in enforcement, he has become a public voice for conservation and a published author writing the books War in the Woods

where there's smoke and hidden war. It's also appeared on multiple television shows, podcasts,

and it conferences to raise awareness about environmental crime and cartel threats to America's

wildlands. Let's dive into the show.

You posted about the USDA proposing to eliminate the roadless rule, which I'll be honest, I had not heard of.

Not that that means a lot because there are so many things I haven't heard of. Right.

But it strips protections that have kept logging and road building out of some of the last

...