This is John Bachelor, conversation with my colleague Katrina Venenhofel of the nation about the requests,

the victory plan, the presentation by President Zolensky to the United States most recently in his visit. It included

presentation requests, insistence upon of entry into NATO.

And that is a bridge too far.

Here's Katrina on the presentation by Mr. Zelensky. The Wall Street Journal says that it was all met with a shrug.

More of this later.

Well, that is, you know, part of what's going on with the provision of weapons is the United States

elements of the United States government foreign policy establishment are saying that you

know Ukraine needs to do better on the battlefield in order to do better at a negotiating table.

Some think that what you may end up with is what essentially was on the quote table a few weeks

after the war started in 2022 the Istanbul plan which allegedly Boris Johnson

tanked or not allegedly but the idea of NATO and EU first of, those institutions have provisions for membership. The Ukraine does not meet

those provisions at this time. And one of the things that consistently appears in any negotiation talk is, you know, neutrality, that Ukraine be provided with security guarantees, but NATO is a red flag.