This is John Batchel, a conversation with Anatole Levin of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft

about what must be done to negotiate an end to the Ukraine war. It is not just about territory. It also involves the sanctions.

And who at the table can talk sanctions? The U.S. can and Brussels can, not Keefe. What needs to be done?

All that's ahead, all the talk, all the trading, and none of it has started, as I understand.

Here's Anatole to explain. More of this tonight.

Well, I mean, at present, of course, there are no negotiations.

The EU is not negotiating with Russia at all.

And the Trump administration, you know, did not come through with a concrete offer to lift sanctions.

You know, one of the problems is that the Trump administration still does not seem to

have actually a peace plan of its own. But obviously, if there is ever going to be a compromise

peace, then both US and EU sanctions will have to be on the table. And you're quite right.

I mean, this is something that will have to be negotiated between Washington and Brussels and Moscow.

This is obviously not a case for Ukraine.