This is John Bachelor. Tonight, on the show, I speak with my colleague Gordon Chang,

and we speak with our colleague Peter Husey, who is helping us to understand how nuclear

deterrence worked in the 20th century and how it can work here in the 21st century.

The question is straightforward. What used nuclear weapons deterrence? We're facing two

peer rivals, both well-nuclear weapon armed, plus their subordinate North Korea,

also nuclear weapon armed, plus their subordinate Islamic Republic of Iran,

likely nuclear weapon armed. What used nuclear deterrence? How to discourage, stop, blunt,

reverse, damage the intention of our nuclear-powered rivals from attacking the United States.

Is it enough to say they don't want their own people to suffer? Peter speaks to that.

Is it enough to say they don't care about the future? Peter speaks to that.

What used nuclear weapon deterrence? Here's Peter Husey.

How reckless they are is the $60,000 question, and my concern is they have shown themselves to be

reckless in the past. They have lost, they have killed millions of their own people to stay in power.

I don't think there were about losing millions of people to stay in power again.

So the question is the reckless meter, so to speak. Where do you think Putin and Xi Jinping and

Kim Jong Un are, and the Mueller is in Iran? Remember, Kamini was asked, why would you attack Israel

because Israel would nuke Iran in reply, and Iran would cease to exist as a society? And Kamini said,

who cares? He said, I don't care about Iran, I care about all the Jews in Israel dying.

And Castro said similar things during the Cuban Missile Crisis. So these are very, very

totalitarian people who they may want to survive, but I don't think they care much about their own

people to be honest with you. So how reckless can they be? They don't tell us. So the question is

you better have a very strong deterrent that's able to take away what they value, which is their

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