This is John Batcher speaking with Mark Simon, formerly a director and deputy for Apple Daily to Jimmy Lye, the founder of Apple Daily.

Commenting on the torture that Jimmy Lye is suffering these last three plus years by the People's

Liberation Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, the Chinese Communist Party, the brutes of the mainland and now of Hong Kong. And Mark explains why it is

they keep him in solitaire and what they want. They don't want what you would expect, a denunciation of

someone else or a list of names that cooperated with you in whatever you're

accused of. No, they want to break Jimmy Lye and Mark explains why. Why

this is important to the Chinese Communist Party after three and a half years.

Mark Simon, Apple Daily, Jimmy Lye, Apple Daily. More of this later in the show.

No, I think that's the main problem. In other words they they have not done anything except for

hold out hoping that he will volunteer to write a confession.

Understand for most folks that they have to understand that Jimmy is the

lynch pin to the narrative about foreign interference in Hong Kong. So in other

words they're not trying to get Jimmy to turn on anybody they're not saying

to Jimmy okay we need you to tell us

who did this and who did that.

They are not looking for that.

What they are looking for is Jimmy is the one who organized everything.

Jimmy is the god who organized everything. Jimmy is the godfather of the so-called of the color revolution.

So they're not putting him in solitary confinement.

They're not do anything to him to try to extract anything. What they're trying to do is get is to break him and also to send an example which again is another part of torture. Everybody knows if you do what Jimmy Lai does, you go into solitary confinement, you go into the hole.