This is John Batcheter, a conversation with my colleague Cliff May, the President and

founder of the Foundation for the Defense of democracies, about energy, about the demand

for energy in order to rebuild the industrial base.

The arsenal of democracy is empty, providing for Ukraine, providing for the Gaza War,

providing for the defense of the Pacific against the predators,

has exhausted our the arsenal of democracy and we do not now have the industrial base in

place to regenerate it in any worthy time frame.

It must be rebuilt for trillions, says Cliff, and that means choices must be made in Washington. Choices about where the money comes from. Cliff

recommends from green. Here he is to explain and the fund here is that Cliff is

writing a speech for the president. This is an

imagine speech. What the president will say to America when he moves from

green to the arsenal.

Here's Cliff.

Yes, I would like him to say, I'm not in favor of industrial policy

overall, but we have something called the defense industrial base,

which allows us to have the material

we need to defend ourselves and to be an arsenal of democracy

because we do want our allies who are fighting common enemies to be well supplied

so that they are not beaten so yes we have to very much rejuvenate the defense

industrial base there's been some progress on that,

but not nearly enough given the state of the challenges.

I also say, this is not in the college, John.

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