This is John Bachelor, continuing my conversation with Patrick O'Donnell.

It's a two-hour conversation, but there are moments that need a great deal of attention. The unvanquished is the book. And Phil Sheridan, the cavalry officer, who after

the war was commander of the armies stationed in Chicago stationed out west. He became President Grant's right-hand

man, operative. But during the war, Sheridan was bullheaded and did what he wanted, no matter what the orders were from Grant.

And here, Patrick takes us to the moment when Sheridan uses his intelligence, plants bad information in the Confederate side through

spies that are brought to him, and then uses the scouts, the Jesse Scouts, the irregular forces of the Union. the in the Sea, John Petersburg and Richmond.

Patrick explains how Sheridan did this, how the scouts did it,

and the relationship between Sheridan and Grant

is always to be remembered. Grant liked him a lot.

Sheridan was bullheaded, did what he wanted, and together, along with Sherman and a number of other very good senior officers

they prevailed Patrick O'Donnell on Sheridan's ride more of this tonight, much more.

What he knows is that these two men are our Confederate operatives and he senses that

and then he sends them on disinformation admissions basically he

feeds them with what they call like chicken feed or some information is

is correct others are false and cedes these men with false information

on his plans.

But his plan is actually to break out of Winchester,

head down, head through the valley and joined forces with Grant.

Grant, by the way, Grant wants him to go to Sherman.

He decides to make up his own order.

This is an incredibly important part of the story too, John.

Because as you mentioned, Philip Sheridan doesn't always follow orders.

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