you have these very complicated relationships, I think, between ideas and values and, you know,

these sort of abstract intangible things that drive change and these very physical material

tangible things like, like coal, oil, gas, or, you know, the supply chains, like, you know,

the life cycle of a leaf piece had this really long section on the supply chains of lettuce, you know, the life cycle of a leaf piece had this really long section on the

supply chains of lettuce, you know, the simplest food, the leaf. And you have like, you know,

30 fossil fuel inputs to do, to make the simplest kind of food possible. Yeah. And some of those are

like, you have to take it from one place to an, what are some of those?

Well, you know, just even the preparing the field to plant the seeds is, involves these massive, you know, tractor machine, you know, trawling machines that just carve up the soil and, and strip it and prepare it, these big industrial cedars,

prepare it to put the seeds in, all the way to, so you know, you're spraying the field with

pesticides, with fertilizers, they're growing, you're spraying it with water that's being pumped

in by some kind of, you know, electrical or fossil fuel system.

You're harvesting it with one of these massive, you know, tractor machines.

You're shipping it to a processing facility.

It's literally going in like industrial washing machines and industrial dryers.

And I think we start, you know, I just started there by thinking, oh, the letter,

how does it get from one place to the other? But you're saying, you know, I just started there by thinking, oh, the letter, how does it get from one place to the other?

But you're saying, you know, pre the even existence of the lettuce prior to the lettuce, there's so, there are so many carbon intensive inputs.

And not only that, but everything that is involved in that itself has to be made and everything that makes that thing has to be made.

Exactly, yeah. And depending on how far you're sort of stretching that life cycle out,

yeah, you're including supply chains of the tractors that get filled and the petroleum that goes

in the tractors and the pipelines that are manufactured to move that petroleum.

You know, it's this just massive structure.

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